Show Notes

Amplify Your Authority
Amplify Your Authority
Episode #90 Bullet Magic That Commands Attention and Action with Kathy Farah

Bullet Magic That Commands Attention and Action
Short, bite-sized pieces of copy can pack a punch when written well. That’s why I love bullets!  

We’re zeroing in on the power of bullets—those compact, curiosity-provoking dynamos of content—and how they can transform your message and captivate your audience.

So, grab your note-taking tools, and let’s amplify your writing skills!


In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • The Essence of Bullets:
    • Understand bullets as cousins to headlines, designed to stimulate intrigue, control attention, and trigger emotions in readers.
  • Why Bullets are Effective:
    • Learn how bullets amplify pain points, share benefits, and explain features, making your message clear and impactful.
  • Commanding Attention with Bullets:
    • Discover techniques for using bullets to conceal or reveal information, making content scannable and straight to the point, depending on the context.
  • Breaking Conventions:
    • Explore how bullets break traditional grammar rules, can contain multiple sentences, and, with their intriguing format, hold a reader’s attention.
  • Bullets’ Versatility:
    • See how bullets are used across various mediums, such as websites, social posts, and book covers, with examples of effective bullet formats like “How to” and “If…then.”


Episode Takeaways

  • The effectiveness of bullets lies in their ability to make text scannable and emphasize crucial points quickly.
  • By concealing or revealing information, bullets can trigger curiosity and engagement, encouraging readers to explore deeper into the content.
  • Bullets are versatile and can be utilized in various formats—from web pages and social media posts to emails and book covers.


Episode Quotes to Remember

“Bullets are mini headlines that are quick to digest and breaks up thick copy so it’s easier to read,” Kathy Farah
“Bullets are cousins to headlines,” Marisa Shadrick


Your Action Step

Submit your copy for a live critique. Our monthly segments with fellow copywriter and ConvertKit Email Strategist Kathy Farah provide expert feedback for your opt-in page or homepage.
Go To:


About Kathy Farah Consulting L L C 

ConvertKit Email Strategist 
In 2021, Kathy Farah faced a significant life change. She found herself divorced after 14 years.
Although this was a devastating season, she pushed herself to take control of her life and start her own online business.
As a ConvertKit email strategist, she blends project management, copywriting, and marketing skills with a passion for helping online business owners earn revenue from an engaged email list.

Connect with Kathy:


Related Episodes

Episode #82 Headline Copywriting: Secrets That Captivate and Convert 
Episode #21 How to Turn Features Into Benefits


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Podcast Transcript

Marisa Shadrick [00:00:12]:
Hello and welcome everyone to another episode of Amplify Your Authority. I’m so excited that you are here. I’m just checking to make sure that everything is recording and streaming correctly because I’m not seeing all the buttons yet, but I see it now. So welcome. I’m Marissa Shadrick, online marketing consultant and certified copywriter. And with me today is the lovely Kathy Ferrock. Kathy, would you welcome everyone and introduce yourself?

Kathy Farah [00:00:42]:
Welcome. I appreciate you guys coming back and listening to Marissa and I, go back and forth on these things. I’m Cathy Ferra. I’m a Convert Kit email strategist, and companies hire me to help them with their email marketing, landing pages, reengagement, and so on.

Marisa Shadrick [00:01:01]:
Yeah. I love having Kathy as a, well, that’s the word this correctly. Guest cohost for Amplify Your Authority. She shows up once a month when we talk about copy simply because she’s got so much expertise and it’s nice to kind of banter back and forth, talk about copy together, and you sort of eavesdrop and listen to the conversation as we talk about it because we were doing this anyway. Whenever we got on Zoom, we talk shop. And I thought, why don’t we just record it on the podcast? That would be fun. So it’s gonna sound like you’re eavesdropping into a conversation, but trust me, we we are organized. We do have notes, so it’s not completely random.

Marisa Shadrick [00:01:41]:
And today, we’re gonna talk about bullets. Bullets, bullets, bullets. I love bullets. How about you, Kathy? Do you love bullets? Is that one? It’s Yes.

Kathy Farah [00:01:50]:
I love bullets. You know, it just it makes it things so much easier to scan through things. Right?

Marisa Shadrick [00:01:56]:
I know. I call them cousins to headlines. They’re kind of in the same vein only.

Kathy Farah [00:02:02]:
Oh, nice.

Marisa Shadrick [00:02:03]:
Yes. Cousins to headlines. So today, we’re gonna talk about bullets, and then we’re also going to do a copy critique, which you could do too. What we do is we have links in the show notes, and people can join our podcast community, and they can submit a live opt in page or their home page if they like for critique. And so you fill out the form, you give us a live URL link, and then we critique it on the show. And trust me, we’re kind because there’s always there’s always great points, right? Great points. And we wanna be able to share with you all the strong pieces of your submission. And also, if there’s room for a little bit of improvement, we want to do that too, because we want everybody to succeed.

Marisa Shadrick [00:02:51]:
So I’m excited to get started and talk about bullets. So, Kathy, why don’t I have you sort of lead the way? How would you like if somebody said, what’s a bullet? Let’s let’s start from the beginning. How would you describe a bullet or the skeleton of a bullet? You know, what what’s some a simple, simple way to explain what a bullet is?

Kathy Farah [00:03:13]:
A bullet is going to be essentially little mini headlines. It gives you an opportunity to, you know, kind of in a quick digestible way, break up really thick copy in something that’s a lot easier to read. And generally, these are things that you’re really making some strong benefit statements, related to sales copy and that type of thing. So a bullet is really just a lot of little headlines, essentially to grab somebody’s attention.

Marisa Shadrick [00:03:50]:
Yeah. That’s the

Kathy Farah [00:03:51]:
way I see it. Yeah.

Marisa Shadrick [00:03:53]:
It’s it it’s kind of I I really hesitate to say it’s a list because I don’t want people to start saying, oh, I could just make a list of these things because that’s where the error falls, right?

Kathy Farah [00:04:03]:

Marisa Shadrick [00:04:04]:
But it it resembles a list, but it’s so much more. Each one of the bullets in whatever section you’re writing, is able to, again, like Cathy said, break up blocks of text or thick text. We never want to have, you know, big blocks of text. Even though some people maybe narrow the margin and maybe they can see it well on a mobile phone, it’s just too much when our eyes are scanning left and right, it’s too much to kind of follow along. We just we kind of like zone out.

Kathy Farah [00:04:38]:
It really is.

Marisa Shadrick [00:04:39]:
Yeah, for sure. So that’s the number one thing that bullets are a great way to highlight in a way because people don’t necessarily read all your copy. I hate to break the news to you. What? They don’t. Do you find I mean, can you speak into that? Do you find that’s the case?

Kathy Farah [00:05:01]:
Yes, I would say so. And I mean, really, if you think about your own way of reading content, we skim through things to see if there’s value in what we’re gonna read. And honestly, it’s, it’s funny even just as, you know, doing copywriting, it’s just changed the way like, it almost immediately when I see a really thick block of text, it just almost is like, ugh, where’s the, you know, where’s

Marisa Shadrick [00:05:26]:
I know.

Kathy Farah [00:05:27]:
Where’s this broken up? I want the white space. You know, it’s interesting. So I would definitely agree that

Marisa Shadrick [00:05:33]:
Yeah. That’s

Kathy Farah [00:05:34]:
Yeah. You don’t read all the way through. You look for what matters

Marisa Shadrick [00:05:37]:
to you. And we’re trying to be honest with you because we want you to understand it’s everyone, not just you, they’re not going to read everything. However, bullets is a great way to stimulate intrigue and catch their attention because like Kathy said, they’re gonna scan first. And if the bullets are positioned correctly, if you even use bold text in some bullets, they can scan and they can almost get a feel of what the rest of the copy is gonna say. So we want them to linger because they’re only gonna visit a site regardless of what it is for a few seconds. So we wanna use the headlines and the bullets in a way that will cause them to pause and to linger and obviously to really I hate to use the word but you do control their attention with bullets because once they see a set of bullets, they may scan down at the next set of bullets. Do you feel like that’s correct that it will help control maybe their attention a little bit?

Kathy Farah [00:06:40]:
Absolutely. And when you space things in such a way where maybe there’s a very short paragraph, and then you’ve got a few bullets, and then a very short paragraph, and a full few bullets. That sort of rhythm will get somebody to scan the bullets. Usually, they’re gonna look there first, and especially if you have something highlighted, bolded, that kind of grabs attention that shows it it’s gonna connect to what I may be interested in, what I’m looking for. I may go back up and read those paragraphs that are above the bullets once I’ve sort of identified that this is something that I am interested in learning more about.

Marisa Shadrick [00:07:20]:
For sure. And you hit it on the nail when you said, you know, our own behavior, we scan and bold pops out. So using bullets, and they need to be very, they need to be benefit driven or has to let me let me back up up. Benefit driven depending on what you’re trying to accomplish with that set of bullets because different bullets can accomplish different things. For example, testimonials can be put in bullet form, or features can be put in bullet form, but it depends on where you’re gonna have it because you can have it in so many different places. That’s why bullets are so wonderful. They’re so versatile, you can even have it on the back cover of a book. So depending on where you have it is going to determine like what type or what theme of bullets are going to be.

Marisa Shadrick [00:08:08]:
Are they gonna be pain driven or benefit driven? So the umbrella to all this is that bullets trigger emotions, which is what we’re trying to do, right? We’re trying to trigger emotions because that’s what’s gonna cause people to linger. So so Cathy let’s move into why are bullets effective? We kind of teased it a little bit when we explained about bullets but let’s talk a little bit about the the pain and benefits and explaining features. You know how we group these bullets. How do we group these bullets?

Kathy Farah [00:08:44]:
Yeah. I think when you’re working on different types of copy, sales copy a lot of times is a really great place where you’re, you know, breaking things down when you’re looking at, like, a benefit of a product, and you’re sort of breaking down that benefit. Bullets are a great place to kind of break down those benefits, addressing pain points of why somebody may want to take some action. It helps them identify, you know, why that this oh, these are all the pain points I feel, and, you know, I would like to what’s next? You know?

Marisa Shadrick [00:09:21]:
So you

Kathy Farah [00:09:22]:
break it down in different ways like that.

Marisa Shadrick [00:09:24]:
Yeah. So if we speak specifically, it might be easier to kind of explain it. Like on a sales page, you may start with pain bullets. Because if you understand your audience really well, you’re gonna know maybe what the struggle is, not just the external struggle, but the internal feelings that are going on with them because of this external struggle. So if you can if you can very succinctly explain, you know, and you often see if you struggle with, that’s a poor way to write it, but you get the idea. If you struggle with and you begin to highlight these things that you know your audience is struggling with, then all of a sudden, they’re gonna self identify and go, oh, gosh. That’s me. And then when they go down to the benefits, like what you were talking about, Kathy, what do you suppose you’re gonna feel when they see all those bullets that are benefit or result driven? How are they gonna feel like you’re to that?

Kathy Farah [00:10:24]:
Yeah. You’re now gonna feel like there might be a solution to solve my pain point.

Marisa Shadrick [00:10:29]:

Kathy Farah [00:10:30]:
And you’re especially if you’re able to drive those benefits down to, okay, it’s addressing like, oh yeah, I’d like to be able to fix that. That’s gonna help me fix this problem and so on, and it’s gonna list it in such a clear way.

Marisa Shadrick [00:10:44]:
Mhmm. Like, for example, weight loss. Let’s just take weight loss. You know, oftentimes people don’t just want to lose weight, They wanna maintain the weight. So if you show a bullet that has a benefit that they can lose, maybe say they lose, I don’t know, £3 a week. So what’s that, you know, over £10 a month, And not only lose and reach your goal after 90 days, but maintain your weight. Even over the holiday season, you know, now they’re seeing a deeper benefit. So that’s what we’re talking about is that it needs to be not just you can lose weight.

Marisa Shadrick [00:11:25]:
Next bullet, you know, something else. You know, you want to finish that bullet. It’s almost has has a rhythm. You start with the benefit and then you give them the result of that benefit. So it needs to be completed. And I think that’s the number one thing I see in bullets that they start right with a benefit, but then they kind of stop. We need to show a benefit and then the result of the benefit. Right? For example, like let’s figure weight loss.

Marisa Shadrick [00:11:53]:
Let’s camp there for a minute because that’s that’s a little easier. If I walk, right, you’re a walker, Kathy too. Yes. If I walk every day, I’m gonna feel some immediate benefits. I’m gonna have maybe a little bit more energy. I’m I’m gonna give myself a pat on my back for doing it because I don’t wanna do it, you know, so all of those are benefits, but long term. What can we say about long term Kathy, not only the immediate but long term, if they’re walking?

Kathy Farah [00:12:22]:
Yeah. You’re healthier. You feel healthier. You know, maybe you’re addressing some health related issues that suddenly become like a benefit, your mindset sort of changes. You know, you start to feel more positive, and oftentimes, like with walking for me, a lot of times it sparks creativity. Yeah. Just getting out in nature, and being able to, you know, walk and think about ideas, it just kind of comes to life, you know. So there’s other benefits that you can kind of highlight that helps them feel that deeper emotion.

Marisa Shadrick [00:12:57]:
And there’s been studies too that show people that walk and begin to track maybe their steps. They can help existing health conditions too. And so the long term benefit could be also, prevention of osteoporosis. Right? Or it could be, maybe lowering their blood pressure medicine. Those type of things are ongoing benefits for them. So that’s what we’re trying to do is not just say you can lose weight because that doesn’t have an emotional connection as much. It’s more like a desire of an outcome that they want. But we want to really connect it to something that is going to resonate with them.

Marisa Shadrick [00:13:36]:
And for the ladies, maybe it’s looking better and feeling more confident, right? Maybe they’re not feeling so confident. So we wanna dig in to what are the benefits of this and the outcome. And when we just kind of inject our bullets with these things, they really pop, and they really do a lot of the heavy lifting. And you agree? I love bullets.

Kathy Farah [00:13:59]:
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Marisa Shadrick [00:14:01]:
What do you think is

Kathy Farah [00:14:02]:
the hardest thing about action

Marisa Shadrick [00:14:04]:

Kathy Farah [00:14:04]:
In the story.

Marisa Shadrick [00:14:06]:
What do you think is the hardest thing about writing bullets? I’m curious what you think.

Kathy Farah [00:14:11]:
You know, I think it’s probably really needing to write the true amount. Like, you know, like, really, you should be writing, you know, a lot more than what you’re actually using. So if the end result is 10 bullets, you know, I think the idea of writing these, you know, 10, 20, 30 different options to really pull out the best information. I think that’s, you know, one area. Also trying to tie it to, like, what your preceding sentence is to see, does it make sense? Does it kind of logically flow where, you know, everyone kind of says you’ll discover. But does that bullet point, if you were to say you you’ll discover and then bullet point, you’ll discover bullet point, does it flow? Or did you kinda lose track of, you know, does does the sentences still make sense if you were to add your little phrase before each of those bullets?

Marisa Shadrick [00:15:10]:
I love that. Just writing more, almost like free writing. Like, what can I say about this product or service that I’m providing? What is the pain and the struggle of my target audience? And even what are the objections? And make and just free writing, like Kathy was saying, is write, write, write. And if you could even create, you know, a list of maybe internal struggle, external struggles, you know, those type of things, words that they use and then start writing, writing a lot over the amount and not judging it. Right? Just writing some some lines, and then going back and see which ones are the best ones might be a good way to get started, right? So bullets can be very effective, and they can be normally when you write bullets are thematic, like Kathy was saying, you can you can talk about the benefits or you can talk about the pain, or some of them could be explaining the features. That would be okay then to write about features. If you’re explaining about the product, you’re at that place on a sales page, and you’re explaining the product, you can tell them what’s included in whatever it is they’re buying. So that’s okay, in that scenario.

Marisa Shadrick [00:16:21]:
So how do bullets command attention? I put in here that they conceal and reveal so sometimes they’re curiosity driven to You say that’s that’s also kind of a strategy that sometimes Yeah.

Kathy Farah [00:16:39]:
You could definitely create some curiosity and say, what What’s inside? What is that gonna tell me? Yeah. You know, by the the types of bullets where you’re not revealing all of the details in the bullets of what you’ll get, just hinting at the idea.

Marisa Shadrick [00:16:57]:
Yeah. And what I like the reason why I scan is I like to get to the bottom line. You know, what’s the bottom line? Because sometimes sales pages, I mean, Kathy, have you seen sales pages that go on and on and on and on and on and on and on? Literally, your finger is just like scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. You wanna get down to the bottom of what are you really offering? I don’t know. They must be effective. I don’t like them. And I don’t write that long. As long as I say what I need to say, call it good and call it a day.

Marisa Shadrick [00:17:23]:
But some of them just go on forever.

Kathy Farah [00:17:25]:
Well, and you know what I always think of when I start seeing a very long sales page like that, I immediately start going, oh my gosh, how expensive is this thing? It’s gonna be very expensive. They’re really trying to convince me of something. And I’m not sure if anyone ever reads from start to finish of a very long sales page, but somebody must. Right? There’s detailed people that will, but I always think this must be very, very expensive.

Marisa Shadrick [00:17:54]:

Kathy Farah [00:17:55]:
So So I wanna scroll to the bottom.

Marisa Shadrick [00:17:58]:
Yeah. Me too. And then I start wondering, sometimes when they write too much, I get suspicious. Yeah. I’m going, why are you writing so much? Are you trying to bamboozle me or something?

Kathy Farah [00:18:09]:
Yeah. You’re over selling me. Yeah.

Marisa Shadrick [00:18:11]:
Or are you just stuffing keywords, and that’s why this thing is so long? I just don’t I don’t see the necessity for it because I have I have paid for premium products a lot 1,000 of dollars. And it didn’t even have to be that that long of a sales page as long as the benefit and the transformation the outcome was there, what I was looking for. So it was there, then I was, There don They don’t have to be grammatically correct. And that’s something. Yeah, so effective that way. And they they can contain more than one sentence. If you do write a sentence, you can have a couple sentences in there depending on where you’re using it. So some of the most common bullets like I think you said it, here’s what you’ll discover, you know, that’s that kind of tease it up or how tos people are familiar with those.

Marisa Shadrick [00:19:07]:
You know, how to bullet bullet bullet, or also number bullets, right? Yeah, the 5 ways you can do something and 12 345 it’ll show in bullets. So another one that that’s one of my favorites. I don’t know if you use these Kathy is the if then if you’re able to spend, you know, 30 minutes a week or an hour a week, you know, writing, you can improve your copy by 10% or something, You know, then you’ll improve your copy by 10%. If then, if you do this, then this can happen. If you walk, you know, a mile a day, then your health can increase by a certain percentage or something like that. Do you use those? Do you like those?

Kathy Farah [00:19:53]:
I, you know, I have before, but I don’t use them very often, to be honest with you. Like, I will use, you know, to, like, break things you’ll get if I’m, you know, if I’m selling something, I might break down the bullets of the things that you’re gonna get in this offer. You know, this is what the price is, and here are the things that you’re, you know, this is what it means. Like, you know, what’s what’s included, that type of thing. But yeah.

Marisa Shadrick [00:20:20]:
So, let’s give them an idea of where we can use bullets, and then let’s go into our critique. So Okay. Where places you’ve seen bullets that

Kathy Farah [00:20:28]:
that I have seen them on website landing pages, on opt ins, emails. Yeah. If they’re selling a product, especially, sales pages. The back of book covers, like you said earlier.

Marisa Shadrick [00:20:47]:
Mhmm. Yeah. All of those. Yes. Social posts?

Kathy Farah [00:20:51]:
Social posts? Yeah. That’s often. Right? We a lot of times, we’ll use them in social posts.

Marisa Shadrick [00:20:57]:
Yeah. I mean, they’re so versatile, and because they’re so powerful and set they say so much succinctly. Now that is a skill that needs to be developed to be able to say things succinctly because it’s not easy. The less you say, the harder it is to write.

Kathy Farah [00:21:15]:
It is. It really is. That’s why I love Grammarly because it does help to kinda remind you, like, you don’t really need all of those words.

Marisa Shadrick [00:21:23]:

Kathy Farah [00:21:24]:
Start stuffing it with a bunch of adjectives. You can probably drop a few adjectives.

Marisa Shadrick [00:21:28]:
Yeah. And to get started, I love what you suggested for them to just write. Just start writing. No judgment. And think of even objections when you’re doing that. What are some of the objections? And flip it into a benefit. That way, you’re addressing exactly maybe some preconceived idea that they have that’s blocking them from moving forward. If you take an objection and flip it into a benefit driven bullet, that may help as well.

Marisa Shadrick [00:21:54]:
But I love that idea. And I do that. I just free write or make a list first or I just kind of craft some things first. And when I do a lot of headlines, a lot of those can turn into bullets. So it’s not wasted time at all because you’re only gonna use so many headlines. The other 3 turned into bullets. So excellent. So today, Kathy, we have a a copy critique by Marisa Di Mercurio.

Marisa Shadrick [00:22:21]:
And she has a lead magnet that she would love us to take a look at. So I’m gonna share my screen. And then we’ll go over this. Let me see if I can find my my share button here. So where did it go? Here it is. You know that script. Hang on just a second. Well, where is my darn share button? Hang on a second.

Marisa Shadrick [00:22:48]:
Here it is.

Kathy Farah [00:22:49]:
Do you have thousands of windows open again?

Marisa Shadrick [00:22:53]:
I have 3 monitors.

Kathy Farah [00:22:56]:
I know. That’s that’s the problem. Your share button is somewhere here.

Marisa Shadrick [00:23:01]:
Yeah. So let me, let me share here it’s giving me and the thing is that a lot of these tools, they start updating, and then things kinda move around. So Yes. But that’s okay. I think we got it here. There we go. This is her opt in. This is what she provided for us.

Marisa Shadrick [00:23:22]:
So let me see if I can make this bigger, because I’m having a hard time seeing

Kathy Farah [00:23:25]:
it. Yes, please.

Marisa Shadrick [00:23:26]:
Having a hard time seeing it. So we have let’s describe for those that are listening. Let’s describe it first. So you wanna describe what you see for those that are in listen only?

Kathy Farah [00:23:40]:
Yeah. It starts off with an image, and it looks like she’s got, you know, it’s a person holding. So it looks like it’s like a magazine, you know, so that’s nice. It kinda gives you I’m sure it’s the cover of her opt in, so that really makes it appear 3 d like. So that’s kinda how it starts is showing the title and the image of her, opt in cover. Mhmm. Someone holding it. So it kinda gives you that feel like you can, you know, gives that pop off the page.

Marisa Shadrick [00:24:15]:
And the image has beautiful, wine glasses, like a whole cluster of wine glasses with various color of wines in it. And below, there’s Texas as wine pairing 101. So it’s very compelling image. Yes. I love the image. It’s beautiful. Okay. So let’s go further so you can describe the rest.

Marisa Shadrick [00:24:37]:
What’s below it?

Kathy Farah [00:24:39]:
So then below that, there’s some, text. You’ve got a little little headline and text and then, the option, you know, to be able to sign sign up. So you can enter your email address and then your call to action button to send to me.

Marisa Shadrick [00:25:00]:
Mhmm. Yep.

Kathy Farah [00:25:01]:
So the colors are stand out. So you’ve got yellow and kind of a soft pink as well. Mhmm.

Marisa Shadrick [00:25:09]:
It’s, it looks like the it’s an opt in form from an email service provider of some sort. So it has a place for the image. And then the actual box where the email goes has within it a little bit of text that says which wine tonight. And then below it, it says chef and missus chef have prepared for you an 8 page wine pairing ebook to guide you through the process of making your wine selections. Learn tips for choosing the best wine for you, your meal, and your palate. Free plus bonus printable wine pairing grid. And then she has just email. No first name, just email, and then a call to action button that says send to me.

Marisa Shadrick [00:25:54]:
That’s it. There’s no, there’s no really opt in page to this. It’s more of an opt in form. So maybe we need to explain the difference, Kathy, so people understand. This looks like it came from an email service provider in its actual form, I’m guessing. It looks like.

Kathy Farah [00:26:13]:
Yeah. Yeah. It does look like the the and the form usually is going to be limited as to how much information you can put in it versus an actual stand alone page. Usually, you have a little bit more room to add some additional detail and maybe some bullets. But, yeah. So this does look like it’s, the forms usually gives you just, limited

Marisa Shadrick [00:26:41]:
options. Right. First of all, I love the idea of the lead magnet. I love because I don’t drink wine very often, and don’t send me to the store to buy wine because I won’t know what to pick, and I will just wonder and I will waste money. So don’t send me to the store. So having this guide, I think it’s a really great idea because I know Krista and they do a lot of culinary video videos and they talk a lot about food and she brings and this is only because I know her, you can’t tell this from, you can’t tell this from the lead magnet, but I know her that she helps people take the outdoor fancy restaurant dining experience and bring it to the kitchen. Right?

Kathy Farah [00:27:32]:
Oh, nice.

Marisa Shadrick [00:27:32]:
Okay. Simple fun. But you can’t tell all that here. See, you can’t tell all that because what we’re seeing is the actual resource which is beautifully done, love but the colors are beautiful. Witch wine tonight, and she says what this is. So what she’s done with the colors, aesthetically, the idea is stellar, because again, and plus, she includes a printable, something you can put with a magnet on your refrigerator. Very clever, great idea. Perfect for her to offer this because since they do give, you know, cooking tips, you know, simple tips and she helps you create these beautiful meals at home, you know, you might wanna get a bottle of wine to go with it.

Marisa Shadrick [00:28:24]:
So this is really serving her audience well. So those are the positive things I see. Do you see more positive things here from this resource?

Kathy Farah [00:28:32]:
Yeah. I definitely think this is helpful because that’s often a question, you know, people have is kind of, how do you pair your wine? You know, what, you know, does this, this type of wine go with fish, or chicken, or, you know, beef? Like, you know, deciding which which wines will kind of compliment the food you’re creating. I think, is something that people that drink wine do look for. So I think she’s addressing the needs of an audience that may be interested in, you know, learning more about wine and making it simple. I think that’s great. And then you kinda have the background. I wonder if it’s kind of the the pink is sort of kind of a play off of, like, rose, you know, that color that you would typically see, you know, kind of a light pinky, vibe. So, you know, I think I think all of that kinda stands out nicely.

Marisa Shadrick [00:29:29]:
And so let let’s look at this and let’s think of because we talked about bullets, what do you think are the problems that people run into when it comes to why now? I expressed a little bit of mine. I would totally waste money because I don’t know how I just learned that I’m such an idiot with wine that, you know, light light meat with light wine, like a white wine, red meat with red wine. I mean, I didn’t even know that. You know? What can I say? Yeah. Because I don’t drink wine.

Kathy Farah [00:29:59]:
And I’m not a big wine expert, so it would definitely if I was trying to figure that out.

Marisa Shadrick [00:30:04]:
But what say if I’m, I want to prepare a meal, like say for the holidays or maybe someone’s anniversary and I wanted to be really special, then I just don’t know how to do this. And so it’s going to create, first of all, some anxiety because I wanna pair it well and I want it to be special and I want it to be memorable. And so this would be really helpful for those struggles as well. Can you think of other problems too that people might have when it comes to during especially if you don’t drink wine very often, you’re not gonna know, you know?

Kathy Farah [00:30:38]:
Yeah. Yeah. And this would be a great opportunity for bullets where you’re talking about those kind of pain points of trying to, you know, you’ve got a special occasion coming up, you know, what what type of wines. Maybe it is something like that, where it kind of gives a hint of the different scenarios that you might encounter of when you would be specifically wanting to fry find the right wine pairing.

Marisa Shadrick [00:31:07]:
Mhmm. Yeah. Especially because wine and I just know from from, you know, going with my husband. He understands wine a lot better than I do. But some of them can be really expensive, and expensive doesn’t always mean good. Right? Some of the ones that aren’t as expensive can be wonderful. So it just depends on where the wine came from what year it is and all this other stuff that I have no clue.

Kathy Farah [00:31:33]:
So And so that would be interesting to kind of highlight is which direction is this going in? Is it at a more basic level? Or is it giving you some of that information of, you know, how you can purchase a, you know, wine that kinda meets your budget? You know, because like you just said, sometimes people think to get a good wine, they they have to spend a lot of money, and that isn’t always the case. There are other options.

Marisa Shadrick [00:32:01]:
And that would be beautifully displayed with bullets.

Kathy Farah [00:32:04]:
Yes. Yes. Exactly. So kind of highlighting the things they’re addressing in their ebook, the scenarios, like, we’re talking about in a bullet, you know, kind of a list of bullets might be beneficial here.

Marisa Shadrick [00:32:19]:
Mhmm. I think so too. So for those just listening, I think this form is done very well. What I would like to see is more. I would like to see about chef and missus chef. I would like to know about who they are. You know, I would like to see the benefits of being able to do this. What are the what are the challenges I’m gonna be able to overcome, like I was sharing earlier, from this resource? Again, if I was to sell this resource, what else would I put on there to be able to show the value of it? And that’s how I have to think sometimes, like, if I was to sell this, what do I need to put on there to show the value? And unfortunately, today, it’s so congested online that we have to treat the freebies like as if we were gonna sell something and provide as much as possible on there on the opt in page.

Marisa Shadrick [00:33:12]:
So this is great. I would just love to see more. And then if she does create

Kathy Farah [00:33:17]:
a live web page,

Marisa Shadrick [00:33:18]:
then she can create that custom URL.

Kathy Farah [00:33:22]:
Yeah. And I was gonna say, just like you were saying without, you know so if I’m a person, how how do I arrive at this page? So what’s my awareness level of who they are? Chef and missus chef doesn’t really give me, you know, an understanding. So having a little bit, like you said, to help build some trust of why I would give my email address for this wine guide versus another wine guide. You know, if they have these, you know, other means that they’re communicating, if they’re more popular in the social setting, you know, as far as like teaching teaching certain things, then giving a little bit of information about who they are so that someone, you know, has trust putting, you know, their email address there.

Marisa Shadrick [00:34:12]:
Mhmm. I think the only exception, now that I’m thinking about it a little bit more, where you would want maybe just the feels or just the box itself without an entire opt in page would be if you’re a blogger and you’re creating some kind of content upgrade, like you’re blogging, writing something about the topic. And then there is a field with a call to action that if you put your email in here, you can get this printable and also this free resource. In that situation, I could see that this would work well. And sometimes you can connect your email service provider with your website and have the fields pop in so that there’s no barrier. There’s not another page they gotta go to right there when they’re reading the blog post. They can put in their email and get that that download. So I think I will say there is a place for this for content upgrade.

Marisa Shadrick [00:35:12]:

Kathy Farah [00:35:13]:
And that’s what we don’t know here right now. So that that’s an excellent

Marisa Shadrick [00:35:18]:
point. Yeah. That was because I was thinking about then I thought, well, wait a minute. I do use forms. What do I use them for? And I use them for content upgrade. So Yeah. So I take it back. Yeah,

Kathy Farah [00:35:28]:
yeah, yeah, yeah. So location makes

Marisa Shadrick [00:35:30]:
Yeah. Or if you’re doing some kind of live event, like I know she does videos, if she’s doing a live video, and she’s saying if you’re watching this video now the thing is if it’s an actual opt in, there’s more uses for it. It could be a standalone lead magnet that you can use in other places. But if you’re having some type of Zoom call or something and you’re presenting something, and you want them to just fill out their email, and you’re talking about wine pairing already, that’s kind of like a content upgrade. But you’re actually mentoring and you’re helping them and you’re audibly on video saying something, maybe this will work too. But I think she could use this more. I think she could use this with an opt in page. She can use it a lot more.

Kathy Farah [00:36:16]:
Yes. For sure. Because I think she’s addressing something that people want to learn more about. So, yeah, I think you’re right. So it really depends on where she’s got it. And if she’s getting to sort of sell what this is in another format, and then this is just kind of the x you know, the step to, you know, get the actual guide. You’re right. That would just make sense that she could use just the form itself.

Marisa Shadrick [00:36:40]:
Yeah. And then again, she can always use the resource as a bonus for something else. And the natural natural problem that people will have once they figure out how to pair it, how do you make the meal, the beautiful meal? And that’s where she can help them too. So Yeah.

Kathy Farah [00:36:54]:

Marisa Shadrick [00:36:54]:
I think overall

Kathy Farah [00:36:55]:
where her welcome sequence could, after they sign up, can start to go into that too.

Marisa Shadrick [00:37:01]:
Ah, there we go. Email strategist thinking there. Yep. For sure. You can go from there with the email sequence and do a little bit more with that.

Kathy Farah [00:37:13]:
Yeah. That’s right. Down that path to kinda get to see, I always think of repurposing things. Right? So that’s Yeah. You know, it it was something that she’s put so much time into. You’d wanna see all the different ways you could repurpose it in different areas.

Marisa Shadrick [00:37:28]:
Mhmm. Absolutely. I like how you think though. Email. Because it’s true. You can use an email, you can put bullets in the email. Yes. Now we’re full circle.

Marisa Shadrick [00:37:39]:
We’re full circle. So, we are almost at the end here because we’ve been on and we’re trying to keep these about 30 minutes. So I just, appreciate Marisa Dimicurio giving us this opportunity to critique it. I think she did a fantastic job. I just would love to see more. That’s all. Just love to see more. And in the show notes, I will put a link we are going to be Cathy and I are gonna be working together.

Marisa Shadrick [00:38:05]:
And we’re going to be inside of copy connection, which is a copywriting course, where we show up for q and a and critiques. It’s not open yet. There’s a wait list because I decided to add chat gbt and AI component to each module. It’s it is what it is, right? That’s the elephant in the room. I need to address it. So it needs to go in before we launch it. But the wait list, you can join the wait list, forward slash wait list. And then you will be in the know when we open it up to the public, and it’ll be fun.

Marisa Shadrick [00:38:48]:
It’ll be exciting. Go through various modules. You can go as fast or as slow as you want. You can do one each month or you can go faster, and there’ll be opportunities once a month for q and a and also for copy critiques. So, Kathy, do you have anything else you wanna add about our conversation today with bullets and Christa’s lead magnet?

Kathy Farah [00:39:10]:
No. I think this is all excellent, and it’s always nice when somebody submits. So I appreciate, that she was the brave one of the brave souls that,

Marisa Shadrick [00:39:20]:

Kathy Farah [00:39:21]:
that we will yeah. You know, we wanna try to help. That’s the biggest thing here. Right? We wanna build to help people get better at the things that they’re doing.

Marisa Shadrick [00:39:29]:
I think it’s beautifully done. If she use it for content upgrade, I think it’s a done deal. If she wants to use it more, like you said, repurpose it, then, you know, an opt in page, would be a great idea too. Or even, you know, I don’t know, you know, what else she sells on the back end, but it could be a way to use an email sequence to sell something else related to the topic. So So yeah, she did a great job. So Kathy, thank you so much for being on today. Thank you.

Kathy Farah [00:39:58]:
I’m glad we did this again.

Marisa Shadrick [00:40:01]:
Yeah. And next time I wanna hear what you’re working on to see what type offers you have for everyone. So I’m gonna hold you to it. It’s been recorded. Yeah. It’s on here.

Kathy Farah [00:40:12]:
So It’s trapped. I’m trapped.

Marisa Shadrick [00:40:15]:
True, darn trap.

Kathy Farah [00:40:16]:
Yeah. But

Marisa Shadrick [00:40:17]:
thank you so much. It really is wonderful to do these with you. I love it. I love connecting with you. And I know it just gives everybody a lot of value. So thank you so much everyone for tuning in. I appreciate it so much. Until next time, We’ll say goodbye.

Marisa Shadrick [00:40:34]:
You want to say goodbye, Kathy to everyone?

Kathy Farah [00:40:36]:
Yes. Bye. Thank you.

Marisa Shadrick [00:40:38]:
Alright. Take care. Bye bye.

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