Show Notes

Amplify Your Authority
Amplify Your Authority
Episode #94 Beyond Features: Write Copy with Emotional Appeal with Guest Kathy Farah

Beyond Features: Crafting Copy with Emotional Appeal with Guest Kathy Farah

Go Beyond Features and Write Copy with Emotional Appeal! 

Copywriting is not just about listing what your product can do; it’s about understanding your audience’s deepest needs and desires and weaving a narrative that speaks directly to them.

Focusing on benefits gives every word you write the power to attract attention and transform interest into action.

In this podcast episode, ConvertKit email strategist Kathy Farah joins me to discuss the differences between features and benefits in copy.

Tune in and discover how to captivate your audience by transforming technical descriptions into compelling buying reasons.


In This Podcast Episode, You’ll Discover

  • Copywriting Secrets Openly Shared: Explore the nuances of effective copywriting and learn why it’s more than crafting sentences; it’s about understanding your avatar’s internal struggle.
  • Features vs. Benefits Decoded: Discover the fundamental differences between features and benefits and why recognizing these differences is critical for successful copywriting.
  • Emotional Connection through Benefits: Learn how benefits directly appeal to your audience’s emotions, transforming mere interest into genuine desire and action.
  • Tangible vs. Emotional Appeal: Discover how features provide straightforward facts about your products while benefits sell the dream and the transformation.
  • Critique in Action: Witness a live critique of a quiz landing page with actionable recommendations to boost its effectiveness and appeal.


Remember, every effort you put into understanding and connecting with your audience brings you one step closer to profit-boosting success.



Episode Key Takeaways

  • Understand the difference between tangible features and intangible benefits.
  • Use benefits to tap into emotions while features provide logical justification.


Quotes to Remember

“Understanding your audience’s evolving needs is crucial for staying relevant and effective in your marketing,” Kathy Farah.
“Use storytelling in your copywriting to engage with your email list and build deeper connections., – Marisa Shadrick.

Your Action Step

Submit your copy for a live critique. Our monthly segments with fellow copywriter and ConvertKit Email Strategist Kathy Farah provide expert feedback for your opt-in page or homepage.
Go To:


About Kathy Farah Consulting L L C 

ConvertKit Email Strategist 
In 2021, Kathy Farah faced a significant life change. She found herself divorced after 14 years.
Although this was a devastating season, she pushed herself to take control of her life and start her own online business.
As a ConvertKit email strategist, she blends project management, copywriting, and marketing skills with a passion for helping online business owners earn revenue from an engaged email list.

Connect with Kathy:


Related Episodes

Episode #82 Headline Copywriting: Secrets That Captivate and Convert 
Episode #21 How to Turn Features Into Benefits


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Podcast Transcript

Marisa Shadrick [00:00:12]:
Hello and welcome everyone. Once a month, we do a copy segment, and I am also joined by Kathy Farah, email strategist. And she is a ConvertKit email strategist. Hi, Kathy. How are you?

Kathy Farah [00:00:29]:
Great. How are you, Marissa?

Marisa Shadrick [00:00:32]:
I’m doing well. So you wanna tell everybody a little bit about what you do?

Kathy Farah [00:00:36]:
Yes. So I am a ConvertKit email strategist, and I help businesses with their welcome promo and reengagement sequences.

Marisa Shadrick [00:00:47]:
Awesome. So needed. Right? Yes. So needed because your email list is your greatest asset. Absolutely. Something you’ve gotta take care of it. You gotta to keep it clean. You got to, you know, engage with your audience.

Marisa Shadrick [00:01:01]:
And Kathy is wonderful at that. So if you guys ever have any questions about email strategy and email campaigns, Kathy is your gal, even if your list is cold or dead. Dead. Yes. That is

Kathy Farah [00:01:16]:
my specialty is reengaging your email list because that’s really the start of everything. And it makes such a big difference when you reengage proactively seek out those inactive subscribers and try to get them back and and cleaning your list. Doing that even on a regular basis is helpful in your opens.

Marisa Shadrick [00:01:39]:
Yeah, absolutely. And copywriting is a big piece of that. Even in emails, in opt ins, in sales pages, on websites, basically everywhere that you read something online, the text that’s written is copy. It’s not copyright. It’s not a legal thing to protect your assets. It’s copywriting, which is really is a science and a skill, but you can learn the skill. So it’s not something that’s so foreign you can learn. And I always tell people, if you don’t know anything about copy at all and you wanna be more engaging, just tell more stories because stories naturally are very engaging.

Marisa Shadrick [00:02:18]:
And so wherever possible, just tell more stories, and then the rest you can learn. It’s a skill that you learn. It just takes a little bit of time, but I think anyone can learn that. Right, Kathy?

Kathy Farah [00:02:28]:
Absolutely. It just takes practice. I think that’s the the key is working at it a little bit and honing it, you know, over time.

Marisa Shadrick [00:02:37]:
Yeah. Well, I’ve got some notes here because I always do. I always

Kathy Farah [00:02:41]:
pre prepare.

Marisa Shadrick [00:02:43]:
So we’re gonna talk today about, an interesting topic that comes up a lot is benefits and benefits versus features. Because oftentimes people can mix the 2 up, and they’re very, very different. They’re not the same. So you can combine some elements and features that expresses benefit, but they’re very distinct separate things. And so I think it’s important to understand the difference. Now, in direct response copy, just to give you a little bit of context, everyone that’s listening, it’s typically different than regular writing. Direct response is very persuasive. We’re trying to lead them to something, so we’re considering what do we want them to think? What do we want them to believe? What do we want them to feel, and then what do we want them to do? So it’s very different than just writing.

Marisa Shadrick [00:03:33]:
And when you’re blogging and you’re writing articles, that’s great. That’s great content. It’s very informative. It’s very educational. But copywriting goes a little further. Wouldn’t you agree, Kathy?

Kathy Farah [00:03:46]:
Absolutely. You’re really trying to draw them to who your audience is to action, taking some sort of action at the end of the process. And that isn’t always true of blog writing and and other types of writing. So that that’s what makes it a little more unique is trying to to get them to take those next steps.

Marisa Shadrick [00:04:05]:
Yeah. And and that’s why it’s so important to understand audience. Right? All of those things that

Kathy Farah [00:04:10]:

Marisa Shadrick [00:04:11]:
We do ahead of time, right, to even figure out our value proposition or sales proposition, all of that is so important to do that. And also keep your finger on the pulse and continue to understand your market because that’s gonna really affect how you communicate when it’s copywriting. Now there’s nothing wrong with blogs. There’s nothing wrong with articles. That creates some reciprocity. That creates that credibility in your market. You understand your market and so all of that is good, but copywriting to for direct response is a little bit different and we’re actually talking about that with these opt ins. It is a form of direct response because we’re hoping that they will see something on the Internet that resonates with them and that they want to click and download for that’s free.

Marisa Shadrick [00:04:59]:
It’s not any cost whatsoever. And then they can become part of our ecosystem where that’s your area, Kathy. Right. They become inside your email list, and then you take it from there and you nurture them. So I just wanted to kinda create that context there for people to understand it. There is a difference because some people think, well, I know how to write. I’m a really good writer, but it’s it’s very, very different. So, benefits.

Marisa Shadrick [00:05:25]:
You wanna lead off? I mean, what I mean, you’ve read copy. You’ve seen copy on the Internet. You write copy. What would you say, like, for an introduction? Like, what does benefit do that maybe features doesn’t?

Kathy Farah [00:05:42]:
So the way I was looking at benefits is it’s really tapping into the emotion of your audience versus a feature that’s really describing something more tangible about your product or service. Immediately, what I started to think of was my neighbor who drives very expensive sports Marisa, and he’s got a young family, wife and and a few children. Those sports cars, he’s not purchasing them based off of logic. He’s it’s a 2 seater, beautiful, sporty car. He’s buying it for the emotion. Something else is driving that. And I think that’s, you know, kind of the part of where you look at benefits versus features. He’s not saying the car has 4 seats, a lots of room.

Kathy Farah [00:06:32]:
It’s more of looking at how do I look, How do I feel? What does it present from an emotional standpoint? Yeah. And that’s kind of the difference verse benefits versus a feature.

Marisa Shadrick [00:06:45]:
Yeah. That’s interesting that you point that out because that’s a great example of a benefit that’s not tangible because it’s not really tangible. It’s more about And and there is a benefit for self identity. Like, I gave an example on a podcast about, dishware. And just when people want to appear like a great parent, or people want a status, or people want to be a great wife, that’s also a benefit. If something that they see is gonna help them achieve that, that’s kind of a form, of of, benefit even amongst friends. Like, if you have, a beautiful decorated home, a living room, there could be a benefit there because we want our neighbors or our friends to come over and say, oh, this house is so beautiful. Right? So there’s benefits like crazy.

Marisa Shadrick [00:07:39]:
We have to get into what you said into kind of the emotional benefit. And so it’s more than features. So can you give me some examples of features so they can kind of wrap their brain around what features are, and then we can kind of knock that out of the way and go deeper with benefits?

Kathy Farah [00:07:57]:
Okay. So the way I’m I’m I’ve actually got a pen beside me, and the way I’m sort of seeing it as feature would be that it’s something I could use to write with. You know, it’s clickable. It may be, you know, something I could erase it or not, you know, that it’s, it’s not gonna rub on to the paper or something, you know, like that. So, it’s it’s more of really, if you think about it, almost the more boring part of a product, generally. Right? Specs.

Marisa Shadrick [00:08:27]:
You know, the specs about it.

Kathy Farah [00:08:29]:
You know how it works. You may need to know some of the that information if you’re trying to do something more particular, but that’s when you’re getting into the logic part when you’re buying something. It’s not what initially drives you to the product.

Marisa Shadrick [00:08:44]:
You know,

Kathy Farah [00:08:44]:
it’s it’s more of the benefits or the emotions of what you’re gaining from it, that I need something to write with.

Marisa Shadrick [00:08:51]:
Yeah. And, like, on Amazon, for example, you go in Amazon, you’re looking for something. Right? And when you get to something, you know, obviously, you look at the price, but then below, it tells more about the specific product. It tells you, like, if you’re looking for a coffee maker, it’ll tell you how many cups it can make, and it gives you all the details. Those are the features. So in a case of a coach, a consultant, a service provider, features if you’re have courses, features would be the modules, Features would be maybe, that you have built in templates. Features would be all of those things that help deliver the content, But the benefits is that that satisfaction that you get, whether it’s tangible or intangible. It might help you get to something faster.

Marisa Shadrick [00:09:43]:
It might save you time. That’s a tangible, but the intangible is where it gets a little tricky for a lot of coaches who maybe they’re in the personal development space. How do you, you can’t really make a benefit sound tangible when it’s related to peace or personal development Right. Or or even courage or confidence. You really have to kind of build out that benefit so they understand that benefit because it has value. It has just as much value as anything else. But there’s a difference between a tangible benefit, like gain 20 hours more a week from this productivity tool. Right? Or those those benefits are tangible.

Marisa Shadrick [00:10:27]:
You can see the end result. You can measure it. You can see it. But the intangibles, you gotta put a little bit more effort into that to kind of explain. Would you agree? I was trying to explain the difference.

Kathy Farah [00:10:39]:
No. You did a great job. I think that explains it so clearly because that that’s one of the things the way I think is more logically. So it is a little tricky when you’re trying to think about it in a more emotional

Marisa Shadrick [00:10:52]:

Kathy Farah [00:10:53]:
you know, when you’re looking, especially when you’re talking about services. And since a lot of us are online entrepreneurs, and we’re dealing with services and especially coaches that are doing something that there is benefits, but it is hard sometimes to be able to translate that into how somebody may be feeling, getting tapping into your audience’s emotions and what they’re needing to solve, what problems they’re solving.

Marisa Shadrick [00:11:21]:
And it’s interesting because even tangibles can have emotional benefits. And I’ll give you a recent example because you can see everything is bare in the back. Right? I’ve been packing. I’ve been busy a lot of things. I’m going to go get my teeth cleaned here this afternoon, trying to get all those last minute things done before we go cross country to Tennessee. Right? And I needed to somehow, you know, and or just terminate all the business connections, the LLC in California, because I’m going to start it up in Tennessee. So I wanted to make sure that I have the correct forms, and I went on the website, couldn’t find it. I was talking to my CPA.

Marisa Shadrick [00:12:03]:
She goes, oh, that’s easy to find. She goes, oh, I can’t find it. I can’t find those points. To dissolve the LLC. Right? And so it was frustrating me because I know it’s just a simple form with a couple of check boxes and my signature and done, and I couldn’t get it done. And it was a week, it went to 2 weeks, and I finally contact an attorney that I know. And I said, this is my situation. I wanna dissolve the LLC in California.

Marisa Shadrick [00:12:30]:
I can’t find the form. And she goes, that’s easy to do. And if there is no form, I can create a form and submit it so that you don’t have any legal obligation. I know this piece of paper would take me 30 seconds to fill out and mail. And she said, I’ll do it for you. And I said, I’m happy to pay for you for it for your time. She goes, it’ll be $300. And I said, done deal.

Marisa Shadrick [00:12:54]:
And so I am paying not for the piece of paper, not for her to mail it. I am paying for peace of mind and for speed and share

Kathy Farah [00:13:07]:
reduce stress.

Marisa Shadrick [00:13:08]:
And reduce stress. All of that. That’s what I’m paying for. And $300 is a deal as far as I’m concerned for the peace of mind where I’m I’m swimming in boxes and checklists lists and everything else, I am happy to pay her $300 to get me the form. She already sent it to me. I already signed it. I already mailed it to her because I had a, you know, snail mail it to her. But see the difference? Mhmm.

Marisa Shadrick [00:13:34]:
The the tangible is the form. But I paid for and was willing to pay to have that peace of mind, to have it done. So you see the difference?

Kathy Farah [00:13:43]:
And I think everyone can relate to your experience of moving, like, as you’re describing that, the way the feelings of, it’s getting closer to the time we need to move, all of this needs to be wrapped up. You know, that sort of sense as you were describing the relief. I could just I can feel that difference. It’s relatable to what, you know, others are going through. And if you could paint that picture for your clients, that’s a fantastic, like, you get that emotion. Right? That’s that’s the interesting part as you were describing that story. I was like, oh, yeah, that’s how your copy should sound.

Marisa Shadrick [00:14:20]:
Yeah. Because it was like night and day. Because I was stressing because I didn’t wanna leave and then leave it unresolved and spend more hours searching for it and then forget about it and 6 months, a year later, 2 years later, get something from California saying you owe taxes, you know, for these past years or pay $2,000 penalty. Right? And so Yeah. That’s why we have to really understand our audience to really dig, dig, dig deep and see what that benefit is, even if it’s a tangible, but especially if it’s an intangible benefit. So, so hopefully that story helps. That is like fresh off the press because that just recently happened to me.

Kathy Farah [00:15:00]:
I think so. I think that was a powerful story.

Marisa Shadrick [00:15:04]:
So, anyway, it has to be very customer centric focus and specific. So in this case of my piece of paper, it was very specific. I needed an exit strategy for this state with the LLC. It was very, very specific. And so and there was definitely a benefit. And the speed that she did it in was also great. And it was so complexity. Mhmm.

Kathy Farah [00:15:26]:
Yeah. And I was gonna say something else that sorta highlights too, is how important it is to kind of stay tapped into what your audience needs as they evolve. You’re not always gonna be in the state of where you’re moving. You know, you’re not always gonna be feeling that sense. So how to keep paying attention to your audience and stay in touch. What works today in copy may not work tomorrow that you have to kind of keep tweaking and adjusting to be able to have that same reaction for what’s happening currently for your subscriber base or your, you know, customer base.

Marisa Shadrick [00:16:02]:
What are some of the like, in your own business for campaigns or maybe oldest, cold list, what how does that make people feel? Let’s see if we could just kind of give an example with what you do. How does it make people feel when they talk to you and you go, well, when’s the last time you emailed them?

Kathy Farah [00:16:20]:
Yeah. Now that yeah. I was gonna say that is I’ve had different reactions They’re panicked at the They’re panicked at the fact that they’re gonna send an email and everyone’s gonna unsubscribe. You know, that they’re nobody wants to hear what they have to say anymore. I might as well just delete everyone and start from scratch. Yeah. And my immediate reaction to that is no, no, no. Let’s see.

Kathy Farah [00:16:53]:
Let’s see if we can reengage because you just never know. It’s so hard to build our email list and to have to to have that audience there. It’s it’s a much easier process to attempt to try to reengage them and reactivate them, to get them to take an action again, than just to and I think that’s the fear. A lot of times, it’s fear. It’s insecurity that, you know, clients are feeling about that. Then the other side of it, insecurity of, you know, cleaning, like, you know, seeing those numbers decrease, removing having to remove people. Once you’ve come to that, you know, point to where you’ve attempted to reengage them, you’ve tried to bring them back onto your, you know, back into your, community. You know, now having to remove people, it’s a it’s a mindset shift for a lot of people because you’re seeing numbers that may be, you know, you’re used to a larger number there, and now you’re seeing those numbers drop.

Kathy Farah [00:17:55]:
That’s that can be stressful, for people.

Marisa Shadrick [00:17:59]:
But we need to start

Kathy Farah [00:18:00]:
to look at the negatives. Right? Mhmm. The you know, the side effects of it, I think is kind of how you have to try to balance that out.

Marisa Shadrick [00:18:07]:
So you have people that are fearful. They worry and I’m sure there’s probably a little guilt, but they haven’t communicated.

Kathy Farah [00:18:17]:
I haven’t emailed in a while, Right? Like, should I tell them why? Like, that’s hard for some people not to want to tell them why they haven’t been on the list. I’m like, no. That’s not you don’t really need to say, oh, by the way, here’s my list of reasons

Marisa Shadrick [00:18:32]:
why. Right.

Kathy Farah [00:18:33]:
You know, that as a result many emails.

Marisa Shadrick [00:18:36]:
Yeah. They’re probably not doing anything right? Because as a result, they’re not sure. Right. Right.

Kathy Farah [00:18:42]:
They’re frozen. How do I now what do I do now? And not realizing that sometimes it’s just as simple as start emailing, start getting back, and you may have people unsubscribe. I think the big thing is that mindset shift about unsubscribes. Like, really helping people to look at that is it’s, you know, because I’ve seen a lot of pained responses of I had I put this email out, and I had all these people unsubscribe, And that’s like, oh, you know, this loss of, like, you know, this person’s no longer there. But the reality is, is it may not be the right connection.

Marisa Shadrick [00:19:19]:

Kathy Farah [00:19:19]:
So wouldn’t you rather have people that are engaged and want to be part of your community and want to see what you have to say, than people that aren’t really that interested. It’s just better to let people move along. And as one of my coaches says, just bless and release and, you know, go along to the people that really want to see it.

Marisa Shadrick [00:19:41]:
So the alternative to the guilt and the fear and the worry, you give them hope, You give them relief that some of these people in their email list is it’s salvageable. It’s not the Yes. The end of the world. We we have a process. And not only do you give them hope, but then you give them a step to take action. You start feeling good about what they’re doing. But see how we’re turning that into a benefit? We’re not even talking about features, how she does it. We’re just turning it into a benefit, and that’s what people often want to buy.

Marisa Shadrick [00:20:16]:
That’s why in copy, if you have a sales page, it’s all emotional because people make a decision based on emotion, but it needs to be justified with logic. And so everything we’re talking about is all about the emotional part of it, flipping that and letting them know that it’s not too late, that this is common. Many people do this. And so assuring them that there is a process to help them reengage. And so you give them a sense of hope, and all of a sudden a sense of relief, you’re removing them from pain, you’re moving them toward pleasure and that’s how we do it.

Kathy Farah [00:20:52]:
Yeah, exactly. And then you start to see your open rates go up because now it’s the people that want to get your emails, you know, your deliverabilities increase because now people are opening, you know, and then you start to see increased sales as a result too, because now you got more people, you’re, again, people are more actively engaged.

Marisa Shadrick [00:21:14]:
Yeah. For sure. So when you’re reviewing your copy, look at your benefits and see if you slipped into features because that happens. See if you slipped into features, you know, the mechanism, the way they’re going to be able to get that transformation and getting away from the emotional benefit. Because the emotional benefit is really what’s going to help get that click or get that buy, is that emotional benefit. So it’s so important.

Kathy Farah [00:21:42]:
That helps to have somebody that kind of can see it, you know, from an outside perspective because I know for myself, I’m busy doing the details behind the scenes. I’m trying to do all the work, the how to, the automations, things like that. So when you’re in that space, that headspace of going into all the details, it’s sometimes great to have, you know, a friend be able to look at that and say, does that click with you, or is this just boring tech stuff? You know, like, is this, you know, does this really, you know, sound the way I’m intending? Do you see the benefits?

Marisa Shadrick [00:22:20]:
Then they find out that you can do it for them and they go done deal. Great. Exactly. You do it. You do it for me, so I don’t have to worry about it anymore. Exactly. Camper. Right?

Kathy Farah [00:22:30]:
So Yeah.

Marisa Shadrick [00:22:31]:
Yeah. So anyway, that’s awesome. So hope you understand a little bit more about benefits because this is really gonna help a lot, the benefits, and then incorporate bullets that we talked about before. That’s very helpful. We do have a landing page that we’re going to critique. And so let me, segue into that. And Patricia submitted, it is actually a quiz. So let me share my screen.

Marisa Shadrick [00:22:57]:
What we’re seeing for those that maybe are not watching on YouTube, once we do the post production or not watching it live on LinkedIn, we have a heading that says, what’s your business brand voice? Then we have a full length image of a woman looking down. It looks like she’s looking down at a laptop, and she may be at a restaurant or a coffee shop Yeah. Looking down at her laptop. And then below it, we’ve got some copy and the copy is all centered. And so all of it is centered. It’s one line after the other. And it says, do you know how your prospect perceives your brand tone and voice? Does it get it? Does it does it gel with their needs and personality? Will they love you or be turned off? Gain exciting customer insights and better understand how you want to show up in your marketing. Plus boost your profits by learning to create personal, meaningful connections with your audience.

Marisa Shadrick [00:24:05]:
Your next step starts now friend. PS. Please choose the best answer that fits you because you’re unique. Take the quiz. So this is, it sounds like in the copy below, it sounds that it’s going to help them make create this assessment and they’ll get some results. It sounds like they’re gonna get some result to understand how they wanna show up in their marketing. So it sounds like a little bit about marketing. It sounds like she’s gonna share something that’s gonna help, boost profit also, and learn how to create personal meaningful connections with the audience.

Marisa Shadrick [00:24:47]:
So I’m not sure if that means, you know, more clicks for, you know, growing your email list or what. So what do you think, Kathy, as we’re looking at this? First of all, I love quizzes. I think quizzes is a great idea.

Kathy Farah [00:24:59]:
Yeah. Quizzes are probably your more advanced, lead magnet to to try. And it because it can become something that you get a lot a higher conversion rate than, you know, PDFs. So from that standpoint, I think it’s a great Now whether or not, you know, it depends on who your target audience here is and and understanding the value of brand voice. Do they understand the value if you’re, not a copywriter or, you know, if you’re just looking at that without having some additional information, I think is, what I’m wondering there. Now from go ahead.

Marisa Shadrick [00:25:47]:
Yeah. No. I I also like the the quiz. I like the brevity of it. It’s very clean. Nice clean white background. Nice size font that she has for the headline, and a nice, bright green button to take the quiz. So it’s very simple.

Marisa Shadrick [00:26:06]:
It’s very to the point, and there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s very good to have it that way, have a headline, and then have a little description with a button. So that’s well done. And it’s a nice photo. It’s a nice photo. So what what do you, suggest, Kathy, for well, let’s start from the beginning and go down and just start with the headline.

Kathy Farah [00:26:28]:
You know, my thought is, would there be a benefit of adding, something that kind of like attention, you know, who her target audience is. Like, maybe something that helps to identify or help somebody self identify who this quiz might resonate the most with. Like, if there’s something that maybe gave you an idea that this was, you know, understanding your brand voice for websites, you know, what your website copy, or something that indicates that might be helpful. I, you

Marisa Shadrick [00:27:03]:
know, definitely think the font size is

Kathy Farah [00:27:05]:
good. Yeah.

Marisa Shadrick [00:27:06]:
Yeah. A little specificity. Okay. And the headline too, what’s your business brand voice? It the headline is the most important piece of your copy. And that’s, that’s why sometimes we have a headline and a subhead, because sometimes we can’t say everything in the headline. But in this case, you know, if she wants to keep what’s your business brand voice, I would have like a sub headline that unpacks that a little bit. Because first of all, the question that people are gonna have is like, why do I wanna know? What’s the what’s the outcome if I do or don’t know my brand voice? Is there a consequence to that, or how is that relevant to, you know, these offers that I’m putting out, these PDFs that I’m putting out, or my website, does it really matter? Now if if we’re focusing on the copywriting of the brand, or if we’re focusing on messaging, your messaging, it can even be more specific because I’m not quite sure, when she says brand voice, we have to be careful not to assume that they know what that means, the brand voice. So, you know, we need to unpack that a little bit.

Marisa Shadrick [00:28:16]:
What do you think, Kathy?

Kathy Farah [00:28:19]:
Yeah. I I agree with you. I think if you’re coming from of, reaching out to someone that might be unaware of your, brand, if they’re at that part of the process, or, you know, or don’t understand what the problem may be with not identifying your brand voice at this stage. Those type those types of things, it just depends on where her ideal audience at what stage of the process they are in the customer awareness

Marisa Shadrick [00:28:50]:
journey. Good point.

Kathy Farah [00:28:52]:
So I think if, you know and and that we don’t know, with this, if there’s somebody that is more solution aware and have maybe is a little further along down the, you know, the journey, then maybe this might click a little differently. So I think that would be good to know. It depends on who she’s specifically trying to reach, with the quiz.

Marisa Shadrick [00:29:18]:
Her question, to us was, is it compelling enough and is there enough, what’s in it for me to get people to take it? So I think your point is, if it’s a it’s established business and they’re just trying to resonate with their audience and they’re, say, you know, under half mil and they’ve got everything clicking along, they wanna tighten some things with engagement, you know, they’d probably understand that, the brand voice. But again, you know, what’s your business brand voice? It needs to tell me, am I is it something that I wanna move toward pleasure or remove run away from pain? So what’s the outcome of knowing that? So again, a subhead might help unpack that. She wanted to keep that. Now what about the text below the image? We’ve got 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 lines that are all centered under just under each other. So, what do you think about that?

Kathy Farah [00:30:15]:
I think it, you know, might benefit from having some more white space. Maybe the font being a little bit larger. Again, I tend to look at that type of thing, you know, just from my eyes standpoint. You know, anyone that knows me knows it’s that’s something that is important for me to see white space so that I can kinda see that very quickly. It would make it to where it’s maybe possibly a little bit more skimmable. If you could break up some of those points, potentially in sort of bullets.

Marisa Shadrick [00:30:54]:
Yeah. I was trying to see if, she was on I was trying to see if I can see the the chat. It looks like the chat is working. Is there a way, Cathy, that you can jump on LinkedIn in another tab and see Yeah. We can’t go through. For some reason, I can’t see anything on here. Yeah. So, again, I’m looking for the chat.

Marisa Shadrick [00:31:17]:
Let me take a look real quick while you’re doing it. With you. While Cathy is trying to open another tab and see, because I think there’s there’s, there’s some people commenting on there, but I can’t tell. I see a number 6. But in this in this area, where below the photo, I think I agree with Kathy that she says that she needs to be more white space. And, of course, the one way we can get some great white space is what I’ve said I love, which is bullets. Bullets are wonderful for something like this to be able to really help it stand out as to the benefit of them taking this quiz. So there’s a lot there.

Marisa Shadrick [00:31:57]:
So I’m trying to still figure out, is this going to help me, boost my profit by by these meaningful connections? How is that gonna do that? Is that direct response from the brand to client? Or is it is it going to be growing the email list, or it’s, you know, is it market research? It says, is it the value proposition, understanding the customer? Because it says gain an exciting customer insights. So how are how am I gonna do that if I do this quiz and better understand? Is she gonna give me questions to ask my market? I’m not quite sure what the outcome is of this particular, quiz. And so that’s important for people. If she wants it to be irresistible, it needs to have an outcome to say you’re gonna discover all these things because at the end of the day, this is what it’s gonna help you do. Boom. What is the outcome? And so is it profit? Is it more downloads? Is it more clicks? Is it grow email list? What is that outcome? And and then people will say, okay. That’s the what in what’s in it for me? Okay. If I do this assessment, I’m gonna see where the gap is because I want more clicks, or I want more people on my email list, or I want more customers from this copy than I’m doing.

Marisa Shadrick [00:33:16]:
So the brand, again, is it the messaging that you mean by voice? I’m not I’m not certain. Kathy, were you able to able to pull No. I did see.

Kathy Farah [00:33:28]:
Yeah. I wasn’t able to see it myself.

Marisa Shadrick [00:33:31]:
What I did, and I didn’t let Cathy know about this because I did it right before we went live. We we don’t usually do rewrites. What I did was I I took what I saw here and I tried to, just create a scenario of copy. And see, there’s a lot of questions that we don’t know. So it really helps to ask questions with the person, the author of the copy, to be able to dial it in. But I wanted to give you an example, to help direct her because I feel like just by saying, oh, you should have bullets and you should have this is not really helping her.

Kathy Farah [00:34:06]:
And so

Marisa Shadrick [00:34:07]:
I wanna help her kind of move forward. So on a on one of these notepads, I put in some ideas here. Is your brand voice truly resonating with your audience? Again, brand voice, messaging people kind of understand. So even with this, I’m almost tempted to say and again, if we could ask some questions, we’d be able to dial this in. But, messaging, that’s so important, resonating with your audience. I would even take the voice out. And then here I added voice here to unpack what I mean by the messaging. So what I did was, is your brand messaging resonating with your audience? And you can even add this, let’s see.

Marisa Shadrick [00:34:59]:
Let me think about this. Is your brand messaging resonating with your audience? And where you can even put or and put the pain. If it’s not resonating with your audience, what could it be potentially doing? Is it or is it falling flat? Or is it, you know, is it causing a total disconnect or some kind of pain? So you could also put an or in there, or you could create a subhead that explains it’s either moving towards success or it’s moving toward failure, and create a subhead there, so all of a sudden, the what’s in it for me, oh, gosh. I gotta know. Am I moving towards success, or am I moving towards failure? And then why take this quiz? We gotta give them a reason to take it. Yes. So it sounded like, she was talking about perceived alignment. So this could be something that could be in caps.

Marisa Shadrick [00:35:53]:
It sounded like she was talking about engagement and connection, and it sounded like she was talking about, you know, will they love or hate you? It sounded like she was talking about affinity or apathy. So, you know, I kind of took some words and reworded it. And then the description really is depends on what’s enclosed in it. I just took a guess. Find out how well your brand brand’s voice aligns with your audience needs and expectations. Engagement and connection, discover your brand’s ability to connect, build trust, and convert leads into customers. I’m guessing. I’m not sure.

Marisa Shadrick [00:36:30]:
Yeah. I took from what I saw, and I’m guessing that this might be, but it might not be. I might have totally missed the mark. Affinity or apathy gain insights into emotional triggers because it really is about the emotional connection. Right? Emotional triggers that can turn passive prospects into loyal advocates. Now we’re seeing the contrast from passive prospect to loyal advocates. Right? Convert leads into customers. Right? Audience, are you meeting audience needs and expectations? Now we’re seeing those benefits that we want.

Marisa Shadrick [00:37:07]:
Right? And so if you had something like this, I think it would be a little bit more appealing for them to say, well, I want that. You know? I’m gonna go ahead and take the quiz. So what do you think, Kathy? I did this on the fly on notebook.

Kathy Farah [00:37:19]:
I think this is good because I I started thinking about it. The you know, for your general, customer base, if you’re not familiar with brand voice and what that means, somebody like, say, an Amy Porterfield or somebody that does, you know, if you’re talking to marketing people, they may understand that terminology, but your, you know, online entrepreneurs may not. So I like the the way you’ve described this because now this kinda clicks with a broader audience from that standpoint, you know,

Marisa Shadrick [00:37:52]:
gives them a little

Kathy Farah [00:37:53]:
bit more clarity, but it also helps to define what you’re trying to accomplish for them.

Marisa Shadrick [00:37:57]:
And I would suggest here, also some kind of, sub sub headline, Yeah. Subheading in here. I would suggest that too to unpack it even further. And that’s why you see headlines with subheads because a headline kind of catches, grabs their attention, and the subhead says everything that the headline couldn’t say and unpacks it a little bit more to give it more context. And then answer the question because they’re gonna be thinking, why should I take this quiz? We’ll put it on there. Why take this quiz? Question mark. And then you would I can’t bold in in this, notepad. Right.

Marisa Shadrick [00:38:34]:
Bold certain things because chances are they’re not gonna read everything. They’re glancing And with bullets, which everybody knows I love bullets, somebody called me to Kathy. I know Marissa loves bullets, and I do love bullets because they’re easy to read. They’re easy to read. So, hopefully, you know, as you watch this, you can take a screenshot of this and kinda see. But I was totally guessing as far as, you know, what she was trying to really offer on the other end. So I didn’t take the quiz. We were just looking at the opt in.

Marisa Shadrick [00:39:04]:
But I love the idea of a quiz. I think this could be very helpful for people to have a little bit more Yeah. Of an understanding of their communication, at least bring more awareness. Right? So I think that would be really, really helpful. So, I don’t know. Any other any other comments on that, Kathy? It was that was kind of a difficult one because, you know, a quiz, we don’t have everything upfront. They’re going through this journey of self discovery. And so I wasn’t quite sure what the outcome was gonna be.

Kathy Farah [00:39:34]:
Well, and I think it also is a good example of, you know, someone that does their business all the time. Sometimes it makes perfect sense to you when you’re in it and you’re doing it every day, but it isn’t as clear when you’ve got an, you know, which is why it’s so helpful to have kind of that outside perspective. So I think this was a good exercise to be able to have have someone that has no information take a look and see how it resonates for you. Because then it kind of brings some insights and enlightens you on, you know, oh, okay. That I thought I was explaining this in a particular way, but you’re in it all the time. It’s not it doesn’t the same wording doesn’t always make sense to everybody.

Marisa Shadrick [00:40:18]:
We went a little longer today, but I’m I’m hoping this is gonna help everyone because, you know, when you’re looking at any kind of lesson or training or anything, even a podcast or listening, you should be thinking, how can I apply this in my own business?

Kathy Farah [00:40:34]:

Marisa Shadrick [00:40:34]:
Because then your brain is searching for solutions. So even if it doesn’t completely apply to what you’re doing right now, if you think, how does this apply to what I’m doing right now, your brain is gonna be searching for those solutions. And so that’s gonna help you also. That’s why we spend a little bit more time on this one because the benefits sincerely, I mean, I will tell you that sincerely. It is so important to dial in benefits because people make an emotional it’s an emotional decision when they buy. It really is, but they do justify with logic. So, it’s really important to dial in those benefits. And it’s not easy.

Marisa Shadrick [00:41:10]:
Like Kathy said, when we’re writing our own stuff, we I mean, when I write my stuff, I break every rule. I forget everything that I’ve learned.

Kathy Farah [00:41:18]:
Yes. I was just gonna say.

Marisa Shadrick [00:41:21]:
I just like a point, Marisa, what are you thinking? You know, you know better than that. I’m just trying to write

Kathy Farah [00:41:26]:
it out.

Marisa Shadrick [00:41:26]:
And so, you know, just because we’ve gone through this training and stuff and I’m certified and everything, doesn’t mean we don’t make mistakes, make mistakes. So the magic is in the edit. Yeah. The magic is in the edits. Yes. Mhmm. For sure.

Kathy Farah [00:41:40]:
Yes. And having outside perspectives, I think that is, you know, very helpful. I love having other people look at, you know, what I’ve put together to see if it makes nearly as much sense.

Marisa Shadrick [00:41:52]:
And here’s a little tip, and this was a a tip I just recorded my month, my monthly what do I call my monthly brief, since I’m gonna be out of town for next week. But one of the things I put in there is if you’re not sure and you’re not sure how to explain your business, the benefits, and those type of things, just get together with some colleagues, get together with some people on a Zoom call, and just say this is what I wanna offer. Ask me questions about it and record it, and look at the transcript of the questions they’re asking you because chances are you’re gonna say, oh, I never thought of that. I never thought of that. I need to put that in my copy. And that will help.

Kathy Farah [00:42:34]:
I was gonna say I love that technique. We just recently did that and I I just think that’s such a great way of doing it because not only that it just sort of tests you on the fly of, again, you’re in it all the time, you know, does it make as much sense to somebody else? And can you explain it in an easy way?

Marisa Shadrick [00:42:51]:
Yeah. I do that in my mastermind. We have spotlights, but then we have reverse spotlights, where if they’re not sure they don’t have a question, we ask them questions about their business. And it usually does bring to light some wonderful things. So, so, Cathy, do you have anything going on lately that we can, share with the audience? Anything that they can, download or anything coming up?

Kathy Farah [00:43:15]:
Okay. So I am working on, and I will have soon. I’m in the I’ve been, in the midst of it, but I, am creating a new free guide, to help with building your reengagement emails to activate those inactive subscribers using I built out the AI prompts for both ChatGPT and Gemini to use where you could just plug in the information about your business. But I’ve got the prompts completely written out and have the scripts that you could either use the done for you templates, or you can kind of plug in details in the prompt and get, reengagement emails generated for you in seconds. So I’m working audit. I am almost there. I’m just doing opt ins and things like that.

Marisa Shadrick [00:44:12]:
But How about if people connect with you on LinkedIn and just Yes. You know, DM you and say, I want it when it’s ready because I talk about removing complexity and saving time and a quick win. Oh my gosh. Way to go, girl. That’s awesome.

Kathy Farah [00:44:26]:
Say, I’m very excited about it. I’ve definitely been in the weeds with it, but I I’m very close. I’m almost there. I just need to do a few more edits. But, but I’m excited about offering that because I think, again, that whole idea of reengaging your audience, if you’re seeing low open rates, if you’re hearing that your, you know, emails are ending up in the junk folder, spam folders, you know, that type of thing, Reengaging those inactive subscribers will make a huge difference.

Marisa Shadrick [00:44:55]:
Mhmm. For sure. For sure. Well, that’s awesome. Does that sound like a good way to connect with you through LinkedIn? Do you have another way? So, yeah,

Kathy Farah [00:45:02]:
send me a message. And as soon as it’s ready, I will get everything, you know, send it to you. I’m gonna post it also on LinkedIn when it’s ready to roll. So I’m I’m getting there. It’s almost it’s almost set.

Marisa Shadrick [00:45:15]:
Oh, I’m sure it’s gonna be beautiful. I want that resource. I’m sure that’s gonna be fantastic because Kathy doesn’t do junk work. She does great work, and so I’m sure it’s gonna be wonderful. So that’s a

Kathy Farah [00:45:25]:
great resource.

Marisa Shadrick [00:45:26]:
So if you guys want that, connect with her. Connect with her and DM her, and let her know you want it. So as soon as it’s available, it’s free. Right?

Kathy Farah [00:45:33]:
It’s a free resource? Absolutely. It’s free. And then as I go through it, I’m gonna record some videos as well, just kind of talking about how to use the prompts. And, so, yes, I’m on that. And then I’m even gonna share the reengagement automation for the future for anyone that uses ConvertKit. So I’ll have that little extra thing as part of my Volkum emails.

Marisa Shadrick [00:45:57]:
So this is what you call a teaser folks teaser to create anticipation because you wanna grab this resource. So, in any event, I do wanna thank Patricia. Thank you so much for allowing us to review your quiz. I think a quiz is a great way to go. I just gave those suggestions. If we would have been able to ask some questions, it would have helped us dial it in a little bit more, but I want you to succeed. So I kinda went a little extra mile there, and I figured the listeners and the people viewing on YouTube be able to get something out of it as well. Yeah.

Marisa Shadrick [00:46:30]:
So, thank you, Patricia, for trusting us and allowing us to take a look at it. So I appreciate it so much. Kathy, any last words before we say goodbye?

Kathy Farah [00:46:40]:
No. Thank you. I always love these. I’m enjoying the whole monthly experience.

Marisa Shadrick [00:46:45]:
Yeah. It’ll be great. So everyone take care. The next time I tune in with Cathy, I will be in Tennessee. Yeah.

Kathy Farah [00:46:52]:
Yeah. There you go.

Marisa Shadrick [00:46:53]:
So if you if you live in Tennessee, reach out on LinkedIn. Let me know. I would love to have a cup of coffee with fellow Tennessee people. So let me know. I’m gonna be just south of Nashville. So thank you everyone for tuning in and let us know if you have a copy that you’d like critique. You can go to forward slash listen, and you’ll get all the details in an email. All the details are there on how to submit the copy, so be sure to do that.

Marisa Shadrick [00:47:21]:
Alrighty. Take care, everyone. Bye. Bye bye.

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